not trying to be difficult I’m just prodding you to think about it why your solutions will work if nar is small subset of the “good ppl” and the other guys arent nar and terrible and they suck, cheat ppl, they are unprofessional so nobody uses them.
let’s just assume that I’m a curb stoner and I wanna cheat people and I don’t want to be a realtor. I wanna pay my 50 bucks a month for MLS dues a month and go wreck havoc.
is this good for the public or bad for the public? that the threshold is even lower now and I don’t have to pay nar dues.
now let’s assume that there’s no MLS either just like UK. it’s even harder financially for me to become a curb stoner because I have to be a employee. my company pays the portals to list the properties. is this better for the public or worse?
have you done any research on Reddit on how the customers feel in a context with no MLS and no NAR and just government oversight. we really can only look to a context out of the usa to extrapolate what this would look like.
Not sure what you're arguing, precisely, but taking the curbstoner example...
Consumer protection has been outsourced to the government. NAR successfully got the states to pass real estate laws and licensing regulations to do consumer protection. What NAR *should* be doing is going above and beyond what the law requires.
So if a curbstoner is out there screwing people, with access to the MLS, that's a problem for the STATE whose laws and rules that curbstoner is violating to deal with.
well, the biggest fine isn’t a fine rob, the big hammer is expulsion from the mls which makes it difficult for blatant curbstoners to cheat the public.
I wonder how many REALTORS give a shit about NAR or their state association or the local association vs how much they care about being a member of the MLS. My guess is less than 10%.
I don't know a single licensed real estate agent that became a Realtor because they gave a single shit about anything except making *perceived* great money.
Realtor Code of Ethics?!?!? Preamble??? haahahahahahaa.....WHO. GIVES. A. SHIT???
You'll bet, "...a year’s income that if you asked ten members of any REALTOR Association, nine of them could not name all of the Directors who govern their Association." ???
I'll bet you 999 out of 1000 Realtors couldn't tell you a single sentence of the Preamble, when it was written, what the purpose is or who wrote it.
Why? Because...wait for it...no one gives a shit. You know what Realtors care about? M.O.N.E.Y....and how can I make more M.O.N.E.Y.???
I'll tell you what would solve a lot of problems...if someone would create a separate national MLS. Just saying.
The nostalgia take is missing a ton of context and nuance.
The direction of NAR has shifted over the years due to significant industry disruption, especially since the '90s, largely from entities aiming to reduce or eliminate the role of agents in real estate transactions. These disruptors, in my view, largely don’t prioritize consumers' best interests and aim to corner the market and reduce competition. You see this with companies today pushing for exclusive internal listing platforms, only accessible through their agents, in their portal. On what planet does marketing a home to a smaller group of people good for the consumer?
The shift toward protecting members reflects a response to preserving the industry.
While NAR could communicate its successes better, consumers today enjoy unprecedented transparency, better contracts, and smoother transactions. In the past, agents were the central figures in transactions, controlling most aspects without other options for consumers, a stark contrast to today’s environment.
Today, the consumer has almost unlimited access to shop inventory, more equitable housing protection (thought that still is fight we're battling), and transparency of information. Good Realtors are adding value in new ways, impossible in previous agents. Like it or not, the NAR has been at that center of this positive shift.
I think you're missing a ton of context and nuance.
I have already said NAR is a victim of its own SUCCESS. Yes, consumers and the public benefited from NAR's past actions, without a doubt. And you can complain about "disruptors" and so on, and pretend this is about "the role of the agents in real estate transactions" except for the fact that (a) technology ALWAYS disrupts everything, and (b) William North was talking about serious problems with agency and NAR's approach to it long before the Internet was a thing.
The problem was NAR turning inwards, turning to a agent-protection racket, rather than advancing its original vision: protecting clients, protecting the public, and advocating for best policies motivated by civic responsibility and patriotism.
The best example is what I have already cited: what does the Code require of you that the law already does not? If the law already protect consumers, why hasn't the Code been updated to go above and beyond what the law requires?
NAR's past was glorious; no one is arguing that, least of all me. But the fact that you're calling it "nostalgia take" tells me that it is well past time for rediscovering why NAR exists at all. You know what I can't find in the Preamble? Any mention of "preserve the role of the agent" or "stay the biggest trade organization in America."
Beyond. Ordinary. Commerce. It's time to get back to that, but in a modern context.
"REALTORS® shall not deny equal professional services to any person based on race, color, religion, sex, disability, familial status, national origin, sexual orientation, or gender identity. REALTORS® shall not be parties to any plan or agreement to discriminate against anyone on these bases. (Amended 1/23)"
In Georgia, where I practice, these protections are not yet fully enshrined in law, meaning certain types of discrimination remain legal. NAR has consistently been one of the strongest advocates for fair housing and these essential protections, with numerous examples where they've led the charge.
While some may view certain actions by NAR as protectionism, this is largely a response to forces actively trying to undermine the organization for their own gain. NAR must adapt to a changing landscape. Is it perfect? No. Have they gotten everything right? Probably not. But it’s easy to be a Monday Morning QB in these situations.
Much like in tech, where innovation and competition suppression often go hand in hand, NAR and similar trade organizations play a critical role in raising standards and advancing the industry, even if profit-driven businesses sometimes find this objectionable.
Unorganized industries reveal the potential impact: taxi cabs, for instance, were undercut by businesses willing to sustain losses over a decade, squeezing traditional drivers out before increasing rates without viable competitors. There’s a parallel in real estate today. NAR offers a place for pro-consumer practices to be debated and implemented—something essential for a balanced marketplace.
"You know what I can't find in the Preamble? Any mention of ""preserve the role of the agent"" or ""stay the biggest trade organization in America."" BAM! Perhaps, NAR should just reduce itself to political advocacy.
not trying to be difficult I’m just prodding you to think about it why your solutions will work if nar is small subset of the “good ppl” and the other guys arent nar and terrible and they suck, cheat ppl, they are unprofessional so nobody uses them.
let’s just assume that I’m a curb stoner and I wanna cheat people and I don’t want to be a realtor. I wanna pay my 50 bucks a month for MLS dues a month and go wreck havoc.
is this good for the public or bad for the public? that the threshold is even lower now and I don’t have to pay nar dues.
now let’s assume that there’s no MLS either just like UK. it’s even harder financially for me to become a curb stoner because I have to be a employee. my company pays the portals to list the properties. is this better for the public or worse?
have you done any research on Reddit on how the customers feel in a context with no MLS and no NAR and just government oversight. we really can only look to a context out of the usa to extrapolate what this would look like.
Not sure what you're arguing, precisely, but taking the curbstoner example...
Consumer protection has been outsourced to the government. NAR successfully got the states to pass real estate laws and licensing regulations to do consumer protection. What NAR *should* be doing is going above and beyond what the law requires.
So if a curbstoner is out there screwing people, with access to the MLS, that's a problem for the STATE whose laws and rules that curbstoner is violating to deal with.
so nar mls should cut the mls feed?
Huh? How do you get that from what I wrote.
No, the real estate commission should revoke the license.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who didn't understand. :-)
but yes state should pull license too
well, the biggest fine isn’t a fine rob, the big hammer is expulsion from the mls which makes it difficult for blatant curbstoners to cheat the public.
which happens today
Are estate agents more ethical in UK? Or Australia? There is no NAR, no MLS. No part time agents, just w2.
I wonder how many REALTORS give a shit about NAR or their state association or the local association vs how much they care about being a member of the MLS. My guess is less than 10%.
I don't know a single licensed real estate agent that became a Realtor because they gave a single shit about anything except making *perceived* great money.
Realtor Code of Ethics?!?!? Preamble??? haahahahahahaa.....WHO. GIVES. A. SHIT???
You'll bet, "...a year’s income that if you asked ten members of any REALTOR Association, nine of them could not name all of the Directors who govern their Association." ???
I'll bet you 999 out of 1000 Realtors couldn't tell you a single sentence of the Preamble, when it was written, what the purpose is or who wrote it.
Why? Because...wait for it...no one gives a shit. You know what Realtors care about? M.O.N.E.Y....and how can I make more M.O.N.E.Y.???
I'll tell you what would solve a lot of problems...if someone would create a separate national MLS. Just saying.
The nostalgia take is missing a ton of context and nuance.
The direction of NAR has shifted over the years due to significant industry disruption, especially since the '90s, largely from entities aiming to reduce or eliminate the role of agents in real estate transactions. These disruptors, in my view, largely don’t prioritize consumers' best interests and aim to corner the market and reduce competition. You see this with companies today pushing for exclusive internal listing platforms, only accessible through their agents, in their portal. On what planet does marketing a home to a smaller group of people good for the consumer?
The shift toward protecting members reflects a response to preserving the industry.
While NAR could communicate its successes better, consumers today enjoy unprecedented transparency, better contracts, and smoother transactions. In the past, agents were the central figures in transactions, controlling most aspects without other options for consumers, a stark contrast to today’s environment.
Today, the consumer has almost unlimited access to shop inventory, more equitable housing protection (thought that still is fight we're battling), and transparency of information. Good Realtors are adding value in new ways, impossible in previous agents. Like it or not, the NAR has been at that center of this positive shift.
I think you're missing a ton of context and nuance.
I have already said NAR is a victim of its own SUCCESS. Yes, consumers and the public benefited from NAR's past actions, without a doubt. And you can complain about "disruptors" and so on, and pretend this is about "the role of the agents in real estate transactions" except for the fact that (a) technology ALWAYS disrupts everything, and (b) William North was talking about serious problems with agency and NAR's approach to it long before the Internet was a thing.
The problem was NAR turning inwards, turning to a agent-protection racket, rather than advancing its original vision: protecting clients, protecting the public, and advocating for best policies motivated by civic responsibility and patriotism.
The best example is what I have already cited: what does the Code require of you that the law already does not? If the law already protect consumers, why hasn't the Code been updated to go above and beyond what the law requires?
NAR's past was glorious; no one is arguing that, least of all me. But the fact that you're calling it "nostalgia take" tells me that it is well past time for rediscovering why NAR exists at all. You know what I can't find in the Preamble? Any mention of "preserve the role of the agent" or "stay the biggest trade organization in America."
Beyond. Ordinary. Commerce. It's time to get back to that, but in a modern context.
To begin with:
"REALTORS® shall not deny equal professional services to any person based on race, color, religion, sex, disability, familial status, national origin, sexual orientation, or gender identity. REALTORS® shall not be parties to any plan or agreement to discriminate against anyone on these bases. (Amended 1/23)"
In Georgia, where I practice, these protections are not yet fully enshrined in law, meaning certain types of discrimination remain legal. NAR has consistently been one of the strongest advocates for fair housing and these essential protections, with numerous examples where they've led the charge.
While some may view certain actions by NAR as protectionism, this is largely a response to forces actively trying to undermine the organization for their own gain. NAR must adapt to a changing landscape. Is it perfect? No. Have they gotten everything right? Probably not. But it’s easy to be a Monday Morning QB in these situations.
Much like in tech, where innovation and competition suppression often go hand in hand, NAR and similar trade organizations play a critical role in raising standards and advancing the industry, even if profit-driven businesses sometimes find this objectionable.
Unorganized industries reveal the potential impact: taxi cabs, for instance, were undercut by businesses willing to sustain losses over a decade, squeezing traditional drivers out before increasing rates without viable competitors. There’s a parallel in real estate today. NAR offers a place for pro-consumer practices to be debated and implemented—something essential for a balanced marketplace.
"You know what I can't find in the Preamble? Any mention of ""preserve the role of the agent"" or ""stay the biggest trade organization in America."" BAM! Perhaps, NAR should just reduce itself to political advocacy.
1000% agree with this article. Well done (again).